Barb De Groodt: Global Dog Behavior Expert on the Reality of Canine Capabilities

In this episode of The Human-Canine Alliance podcast, host Stacie interviews Barb De Groodt, owner of From the Heart Dog Training, discussing her extensive experience and unique approach to dog training. The conversation covers Barb's background, her training methodologies, and the importance of respecting the dog's personality and needs. They explore the differences between emotional support dogs, therapy dogs, and service dogs, and discuss the potential role of AI in matching dogs with humans to enhance their lifestyles. Barb shares personal anecdotes and emphasizes the value of patience and intention in effective dog training.

About Barb:
Barb De Groodt has spent over 60 years working with animals around the globe—from training German shorthaired pointers in her father’s kennel at age 8 to mentoring modern trainers across India, Spain, Thailand, and beyond. A founding member of the Association of Pet Dog Trainers, Hall of Fame inductee with the International Association of Canine Professionals, and former Trainer of the Year at Westminster, Barb continues to educate, present, and innovate within the field. Her deep respect for animals and commitment to individualized training make her a true pioneer in the evolution of the human-canine bond.

Chapters

• 1:52 Barb DeGroot's Background in Dog Training
• 4:15 Starting a Dog Training Business
• 6:23 Respect-Based Dog Training Philosophy
• 9:18 Choosing the Right Dog for Your Lifestyle
• 13:18 The Role of Dogs in Human Lives
• 16:11 Understanding Emotional Support and Service Dogs
• 17:06 Therapy Dogs vs. Service Dogs
• 18:16 The Problem with Fake Service Dogs
• 19:44 Certification and Training of Therapy Dogs
• 21:18 The Human-Canine Alliance: Matching Dogs and Owners
• 22:38 Challenges in Dog Adoption and Training
• 32:54 The Role of AI in Dog Training and Matching

Transcript

Barb: It's a great Saturday. Everybody goes, how much? How much do you charge? I said, I don't charge anything. It's a donation for the non-profit. Nice. It's just fun for me. I noticed the hat over there. Uhhuh. Yeah. And people throwing in some money in. We got about five different non-profits. They pull a name out of it and whatever name they pull is who we're walking for that week.

Stacie: Oh, no kidding. So who is it this week?

Barb: AFRP. Animal Friends at Rescue Project. In the last couple of years, we've done about $7,500 that we've donated to local charities in a year.

Stacie: When did you start it?

Barb: I'm gonna say 2020. Oh, so it's been about five years. Six. Six years. Yeah. Yeah.

Stacie: Oh, what gave you the idea?

Barb: I actually travel the world with a friend of mine from Texas, and he does what's called large dog socialization. So they're in a big field at one point had a field that was, I think three acres and we'd have 110, 120 dogs. I'm too old for that. I'm staying with the pint size.

[00:01:00] 

Stacie: Hey everyone. I am so excited to be introducing you to my first guest on the Human Canine Alliance. Her name is Barb De Groodt. We are here at her place of business, which is from the Heart Dog training. She is in there right now giving a class. It is a small dog class, and they're kind of going around in circles, the people and the dogs.

Not in a chaotic situation. I just wanna let you know. Very interesting to watch. Super excited about this interview. Can't wait for you to listen to it. I can't wait to get in there. Let's get started.

Thank you very much for doing this. We are honored to have you here on our podcast, and I don't know if you know this, but you are our first interview on the Human Canine Alliance.

Barb: Do I get a ribbon?

Stacie: We gave you a badge. Remember? She has an early impact badge. The first one to receive it. 

why don't you tell us a little bit about you and your business Okay. And your background and why it's important that dog training is [00:02:00] something that we're talking about today. 

My dad had a working kennel, and so I started training dogs at 6, 7, 8 years old.

 I grew up with German short haired pointers.

I got my first, I think 20 bucks when I was about eight. So I thought this is the way to go. I was young, I was small and these dogs were bigger than I, and so I had to learn to train kind of in a non compulsive. Method, which back then it was all kind of what we call jerk and choke. It was, you know, you will comply one way or the other.

We'll make it happen. And that didn't work for me because the dogs were bigger than I was. I had long haired doxys for a long time. As I was finishing my college, I told my mom I was gonna get a big dog. She said, it's fine, just don't bring home a doberman. She grew up during the war in Germany, and Dobermans were used by a lot of the police departments.

So I brought home a Rottweiler. She said, that's just a fat doberman. Not. Yeah, exactly. And I've been with Rottweilers ever since. But along with that, I mean, my [00:03:00] household, normally we run four to five dogs, and I usually have, half of 'em are shelter dogs and half of 'em are purchased because I have certain things that I want to accomplish.

I have a little chihuahua at home. Who runs the show as all Chihuahuas do. And then I have two elderly shelter terriers that are, I think Quinn is 15 and Bob is 16. Whiskey, who is my current boy, I believe is my 16th personal Rottweiler. Oh my gosh. Yeah, so, so I've been with him for a long time, and normally I have two to three at a time.

So scent work tracking are really important to me. And in order to compete in that, I need a purebred dog.

Stacie: Well, so tell me a little bit more about your business and what brought you into it.

Barb: I worked for the phone company for 20 years and during divestiture things were just getting all weird and I decided I was gonna take an early retirement and my vet said, oh, thank God. He said, I finally don't have to track you down for training problems and behavior [00:04:00] issues.

You're gonna start a business. Right. And I'm like. Sure.

Stacie: Your vet said this?

Barb: Um, yeah. Oh, I would refer a lot of people to me for behavior issues and I would take 'em one on, but not as a business per se. And then it just kind of grew from there. Basically. I had come back from New York. A lot of my clients who were training clients said, when are you gonna start a daycare?

And I said, oh God, never. I don't wanna do that. And it was like, please, please, please, please. Okay, fine. I was an editor for a dog magazine at the time, so I thought, well, I could probably watch 18 dogs by myself. And sure enough, the first day I opened, I had 18 dogs and I only opened one day a week for about.

Two weeks, then everybody pushed. Well do, do a second day. I'm like, oh my word. Okay, now I'm gonna have to become a business owner and hire staff. So I hired people and it's just been great guns for the last 20, I think, seven years now. So it's Wow, amazing. I have long-term clients, [00:05:00] long-term employees. I'm blessed.

I listen to other people and I hear how quickly everything passes through. I've been really lucky.

Stacie: I'd say that means you're doing something right. People like to work with people. They trust that they like to work with people that get results.

Barb: Absolutely. We definitely, we work from a behavior, from a respect mod too, so that it's not about.

Pulling and pulling and pushing the dogs around. It's trying to understand the dog's point of view as well as ours and putting 'em together as a partnership rather than lord master type thing.

Stacie: Oh, and what a great transition that is, isn't it? That's obviously one of the reasons we wanted to talk to her here at the Human Canine Alliance.

I attended a webinar that Barb gave a few weeks ago, and she spoke a lot about how humans and dogs have a lot more in common than we admit or maybe address in our society. And that was one of the main reasons that I asked her to be on the podcast. Because just your whole training mantra seems to be very much about respecting the dog.

And the old school way of thinking [00:06:00] about training dogs is there's an alpha and a beta and that sort of thing, and you have a completely different approach.

Barb: Well, you know, I mean at one point. Way, way back when I had a real soft spot in my head. I had about 10 dogs and I don't need somebody circling the bed going when she falls asleep tonight, we take her out and for me they are.

Short of a few handful of people, they are my best friend and I wanna treat 'em as my best friend. I'm always concerned when somebody comes up and they bring me a puppy and they go, this is gonna be my obedience trial champion dog. And I turn it around and look and I'm like, I don't see a label. How? How can you say that's what it's going to be?

And. It concerns me because then they spend the next 10 years butting heads with this dog going, you're gonna do this, you're gonna do this. And the dog goes, I don't wanna do this, I don't wanna do this. So I kind of look at it in my philosophy, I guess if, if nothing else. Just like with parents, you know, you want your kid to grow up to be a doctor or a lawyer, but when my Hummer doesn't start, I'm glad somebody's a mechanic and

so [00:07:00] why not work toward what that dog is strong in and have a good relationship and enjoy the dog? 'cause we don't have 'em that long.

and Whiskey's a really good example. I love scent work. I love detection work. He is like, yeah, okay, I'll do it for you mom, 'cause you want me to, but he really doesn't enjoy it. But he loves doing obedience. I don't compete in obedience anymore, but I can still work him in that scenario and do things with him.

So a lot of it is figure out what his strong suit is or her, whatever the dog's strong suit is and move toward it. But. Also respect them. It's not like he's gonna blow me off because I want him to do something. No, we'll still do it, but maybe we won't pursue it full time.

Stacie: Right. And I feel like that's a really great transition into talking a little bit more about the differences in personalities.

Of different dogs. Right. And it's not just breed specific, it's not just age specific. Absolutely. Which I think most people just black and white, if they're this [00:08:00] breed, they're this type of personality. 

Barb (2): Right. Well, you, you saw with whiskey, he let you approach him. He was no problem. He allowed you to come up and talk to him and pet him and stuff while I was completely removed from the situation.

He's a very people oriented dog, which a lot of times people don't think that the Rottweilers are, they're actually quite. Discriminating with who they like, but they're actually pretty well-rounded dog if people have done the training with them. And I think that, that's the thing I always tell people, when they come in and they go, well, you know, it's a such and such.

 I really don't care what coat it's wearing. Show me the personality. Most dogs were purpose bred and so we do have to look at certain things. So, hundreds of years ago, some farmer shot a bird and said, go get it, dog. And the dog looked at him and looked at the bird, went, ha.

You shot it, you get it. That didn't become the lab. That didn't become the golden, you know, it didn't become a bird dog. It probably became a rotweiler. But I think that we have to be mindful of that. And the same with terriers. We bred them to go in ground after [00:09:00] vermin to bark and be tenacious and take it on and people will get 'em.

'cause they're cute. And I understand, cute, Lord knows I understand. Cute, but cute shouldn't be an excuse. Agreed. And unfortunately, people are very aesthetically driven. So they go to the shelter and they go, well, this is the perfect dog for you. And they go, yeah, yeah, I don't want that one. I like that one over there.

It's speckled, or it's got a blue eye, or it's got, you know, whatever. And rather than say, this is the perfect dog for you, even though we've matched you up, or at least. Pushed you in that direction, people want to go because it's pretty Right. Because it's unique. 

Stacie (2): And just to clarify a little, when you say perfect for you mm-hmm.

You mean based on personality, based on demeanor, based on the lifestyle, absolutely. That sort of thing. The things that are actually gonna make it a good match for life. Right. Right. Versus, oh for a week. And that wasn't a good fit for us. We're gonna take it back to the rescue. 

Barb (2): Yeah. Yeah. And that's where we, you know, we end up with the boomerang dogs that keep coming back to the shelter after one or two owners, and then.

[00:10:00] That shortens their life in the shelter because it is unfortunately, and I say that sincerely, unfortunately, because of space, a lot of these dogs don't get out. Because they are. A normal dog, it's not unique, and right now the Frenchies are overflowing the market. I mean, the Frenchies knocked labs out of number one, who labs have been number one with the AKC for, I don't know, 30 years.

And all of a sudden the Frenchies have taken over. Unfortunately, they're getting Frenchies that are blue. So they usually have health issues. They usually have some sort of of allergies, skin issues, that type of thing. And it's sad because then they end up at the shelter and nobody's gonna adopt 'em because they're a lifetime of care and nobody wants to do that.

Stacie (2): Yeah. I feel like the way you're describing it, it's just taking me to, when people go to a rescue center and they get a dog, it's almost like they went to Target. Right. And they bought us Stuffed animal or something. Yeah. And then they brought it home. Yep. And it didn't [00:11:00] fit exactly how they thought it was gonna fit.

Exactly. And so, oh, we just take it back. Yep. Yep. And. I mean, it's a life. It's a real act. Like that dog goes back into that cage and doesn't know what it did wrong, doesn't know if it's gonna be there forever. it might end up getting euthanized for whatever reason. And Yeah. That's why, that's why we're here.

Right. That's why we're here. I mean, 

Barb (2): And I know we talked before this, there was a study that was done and only 4% of people actually train their dogs rather than train them, they turn 'em back. And that's, that's kind of sad. I mean, to me, first of all, you're looking at a species that doesn't speak English, doesn't speak normally.

I mean, some bark, but in general, they communicate through body language. And so here we take this little entity. We're gonna teach it a new language and different words and all this kind of stuff, and people don't take the time to do it. 

Stacie (2): I think you made a good comparison with children.

Mm-hmm. You know, I mean, you want your child to be a doctor or a lawyer. Not every child ends up being the doctor or the lawyer. You have to adapt with personalities, all the things. And it 

Barb (2): [00:12:00] doesn't work that way with dogs, you know? Yeah. Sometimes you get ones that are just little stinkers, you have to say, okay, how do I adapt to this?

How do I adjust my household? Mm-hmm. And once you've made that commitment, I'm. Pretty serious about the commitment.

Stacie: back to the comparison of buying a stuffed animal at Target, I think that's more of the mindset. Yeah. People have when they go and get a dog. 

Barb (4): And then the other side of the coin is I've had a couple of clients who's a partner passed away and they've said to me, that little thing over there makes me get up every day.

And that's where I'm like, ah, yes. Now you warmed my heart. Yeah. You know, because that's, that's really what it should be is Absolutely. And some days you're a pain in my butt, but other days, God, I love you to death. Yeah. 

Stacie (3): My grandpa. The last few years of his life, we were sure.

Mm-hmm. If his dog, King. Had not been around. Yep. He probably would've passed sooner. Yep. He was very attached to that dog. 

Barb: I've had a lot of people who have told me that, my parent, my friend, my whatever. If it wasn't for the dogs, I'm sure they would've passed away years before. Mm-hmm.

Stacie (3): Yeah, there's [00:13:00] something Do that. Absolutely. Well, that might be a good transition then. Can you help us understand the differences between emotional support dogs, therapy dogs, service dogs, and then what we're trying to do here at the Human Canine Alliance, which is basically to train dogs to be lifestyle components.

Barb (4): Emotional support dogs have been very controversial. At one point they were classified as service dogs. They are no longer, so they are not afforded the rights of public access and that sort of thing. They don't even have to have training, which is a little frightening.

About the only thing that they really can get away with, if you will, is housing.

And travel. And even the travel is now, they're buttoning down on that because we've had people who have been bitten by emotional support dogs, and that's a little scary. Therapy dogs usually are dogs that are trained to go into convalescent hospitals, extended care, regular hospitals, and provide comfort for people that are in those facilities.[00:14:00] 

Service dogs technically should provide some sort of task that the owner may not be able to complete. So right now I have a little tiny poodle that if his mom is having an asthma attack, he knows to go run and get her pouch where she has a inhaler in it and they put it in the same place all the time, so he knows how to go get it.

She tells him and he runs and goes and get it. Where people would probably look at that and go, how could he possibly be a service dog? He's only 12 pounds because he is performing a task she can't do. She also uses a cane. So I had her get a collapsible cane because then he can drag it with him and so he can bring it to her if her knee goes out or if her leg bothers her.

So when people tell me, well, they said it was a service dog, but I didn't believe it. And I'm like, you know what? If my little three pound, five pound chihuahua can tell me I'm getting ready to stroke out, that's a service dog. The unfortunate thing is. There are too many places on the internet where [00:15:00] you can order your vest for $96, get a vest and a certificate, and they've never met your dog or anything else.

And I've had people who have come in and told me, they said, well, they just asked if my dog was friendly. And so they said, oh, okay. He can be a service dog. And it's unfortunate because the way that the ADA has it written up, is that you can do what we call self-train. You don't have to go to an organization to get a dog.

And there is no national certification for service dogs.

Really? I did not know that.

Yeah. So a lot of people slide in, they buy a vest and all of a sudden they've got a service dog. I was at a store and there was a woman walking around with her, I don't know, little dog. It wasn't. It wasn't a Pomeranian, it was something along that size though.

And he was peeing on the shelves. And I walked up and I said, excuse me, your dog's urinating. And she said, oh, well that's not my problem. And turned around and walked off. I found a staff person there really quickly, and she said, oh my God, is it such and such? And I'm like, yep. She goes, God. We always [00:16:00] trying to catch that woman.

Oh my gosh. They ran through that whole store. They couldn't find her. She was long gone, but he peed on merchandise. Those are the type of things that you look at and you go, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You're violating the rights of people who actually need service docs.

Stacie: Absolutely. Okay, so I'm gonna assume, but I'm gonna let you tell me that therapy dogs are actually certified and a lot of us are confusing service and therapy dogs. Absolutely. Okay. 

Barb: Therapy dogs you usually go through, there are a couple of organizations that certify them and most places want some sort of certification. And through those organizations you also have insurance and you have guidelines and that type of thing.

However, I will say in some of the extended care places. They just want dogs to come in. As long as they're mindful and they're good dogs. Sure. They don't mind them coming in. Right. Whether they're certified or not 'cause they just want these people to have some sort of interaction.

I think the way that the Alliance is gonna come in and kind of fit into this [00:17:00] jigsaw puzzle of owning dogs or developing relationships with the dogs, it's a good way to have somebody who is not emotionally attached to assist finding the right animal for. Somebody to help them with whatever issues they may or may not have that the dog can assist in.

Like I say, I think because we're aesthetically driven, our tendency is to just get something that's cute and then get home and realize that dog that was spinning circles in the kennel, there was a reason. Yeah. And y'all now better become marathon runners, you know? So I think that that having somebody who is kind of an independent person to help with that would prolong both the life of the person as well as the dog. And that's really where I see them all kind of inter meshing together and. Hopefully addressing both the issues that people have, but then also the unfortunate [00:18:00] high euthanasia rates that we have in our shelters and rescues. Absolutely. 

Stacie: Absolutely.

And when we first spoke, you told me that a while back you had a similar idea. Mm-hmm. In terms of having a rescue. 

Barb: Well, I've always said that if I ever had a shelter, you would never be able to walk down the row and look at dogs. You would go to a kiosk, you would answer. Five, six questions. You know, you weekend warrior, you know what type of lifestyle, blah, blah, blah.

Then we would bring out five, six dogs that kind of meet that criteria and it wouldn't cause chaos in the shelter where dogs are jumping and barking and carrying on and people are walking by and people taunt them and you know, there are so many issues that happen in a shelter situation. So I think that that's my.

You know, blue sky, apple pie shelter. Well, I loved 

Stacie: that when you told me that, because it takes me back to, and I know I've said this a few times, but it takes me back to it doesn't allow you to compare picking up a dog at a rescue as picking up a stuffed animal at Target, right? Yeah. When I go to [00:19:00] Target, I can walk down the aisle.

Right. And I can choose anything I want. Exactly. When I go to a rescue center. Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep. I shouldn't have the same option. Exactly. Right. I should, I should. There should be some sort of requirements, right? Not, not so much about. Verifying that I'm a good person to take this dog, but let's find out what are the, what are good matches.

Mm-hmm. To make sure I kick a dog that is gonna be a good fit for me and my life. Right. Yeah, exactly. And, and I think at the Human Canine Alliance, when I, when I look at it that way, I think the biggest problem is we put a lot of responsibility on the person. Yeah. Especially. When you think about why a lot of times people go and get dogs, it's because maybe they wanna have a family dog.

Right? Right. A a dog for the kid. Mm-hmm. Or it's a dog that I just wanna love on and I wanna have some sort of companion. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. But if that companion isn't exactly the type of companion Right, that you thought it was gonna be, then it's not a good fit for you. Exactly. Anyway. Regardless if it's a companion.

Barb: And I think that's the other side of it, is also looking at the individuals and that's where I think people have a tendency to go. [00:20:00] I like. This breed. So that's what I'm gonna go look for. And again. Whiskey. I think he's my 16th personal Rottweiler. He is not like any of my other ones. I had to learn to adjust to some of the things that he does because it was like never had a Rottweiler do that before.

You have to train the dog that's in front of you today, not the one you had before. And sometimes I encourage people to try a different breed because they do get stuck on, but my last lab, I'm not training him, we're training this one. 

Stacie: Again, I think that speaks a lot to our societal mindset.

Absolutely. So I'm just trying to compare it to things to make it relatable. Mm-hmm. So we think of breeds almost like a car brand. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. People are so attached to their Toyota Absolutely. Or so attached to their Ford. Oh, my last Ford. Oh my last Chevy. That's exactly what people do with their dog breeds. 

Barb: And if you go to some, especially third world countries, most of the dogs are very feral looking. They're usually a little bit of a tan. They maybe have a curled up tail, soft ears, but that's generic [00:21:00] dog. And they don't have a problem having the dogs. Right. It's not like I need a blue Merle triple back flip doodle type thing.

You know The American special. Yeah, exactly. If you like certain breeds, certain characteristics, yes. Go for it. It shouldn't be the driving factor.

Stacie: Let's talk about training a little bit because when it comes to the human canine alliance, one of the key factors that we're trying to introduce is not only matchmaking dogs and humans based on personalities, based on demeanor, based on age, that sort of thing, but also we are trying to make it so that the dog becomes a lifestyle enrichment factor for that human.

So help us understand. How that could really work or if that could really work. Can a dog be trained in a way to be a life enrichment piece for a person, without it being a $50,000 service training?

Barb: Right? I think so. I think that that a lot of it is our mindset [00:22:00] change. I get a lot of people that will come in and they go, well, you know, he's still a puppy.

And I'm like, yeah, he's like five years old now. He's not a puppy. I'll pull up a video of when I first got cowboy. I had him less than 24 hours. He did a sit, a down a stand, a stay a recall, a heel, an offside heel, all within two minutes. I think the video is maybe four minutes long. It was just setting up the standards.

Now, was he perfect at it? Absolutely not. But I had a nice piece of clay that I had molded into something wonderful when I had Annie, who was my elderly chihuahua, she came to me at 12. And in my household, I don't want the dogs rushing the door. Annie came to my house and the first thing she did was always be on the wrong side of the door.

I'm like, you're killing me, dog. And one day I said, okay, that's it. Take the few seconds that it takes to teach her. And [00:23:00] basically she sat in front of the door. I started to open the screen door. She moved, I closed the screen door and she backed up. She kinda looked at me. I reached for the door, opened it again.

She started again. I closed the door. Fourth time I opened the door completely opened. She's looking at me and I said. Outside and then she went outside. In that short period of time, she learned, don't go through the door unless you're asked. So they're capable of a lot. I think we short cheat 'em an awful lot, and that's sad for us because they have so much more potential.

Stacie: Those are such great examples. Yeah. And such short amount of time. Exactly. And it has much more to do with patience. Yes. And intention.

Barb: That is probably one of my classic lines. I tell clients all the time, I tell classes all the time, if I could give you one thing for free, it would be 25 pounds of patience and a couple of you need the 50 pound bag.

But in general, you know, just stand there and wait, you know? Yeah. I mean, I, I kind of laughingly always tell my dogs I'm still in charge. I have thumbs [00:24:00] and I'm. Pretty sure when we get to the other side, they're gonna bite me. 

Stacie: It's so interesting how our society has such a, it's almost like a yingying persona, because everybody knows the line man's best friend, and that equals dog.

Yep. But man's best friend equals dog. Doesn't mean that we treat man's best friend as a best friend. We treat them like, I'm the alpha right. And I'm in charge. And that's what we've learned over the years. And so I think that that persona also, like you just said, has very much undercut the value and the ability that they can learn absolutely, that the canines have the ability to learn.

That was something I recently learned was just how big the span of intelligence is. In terms of dogs, not so much breed. It might be a little bit breed specific, but it's also their ability to learn and like the environment they grow up in. Just like a person. Absolutely. I mean, they adapt, they grow, they thrive.

Yep. If they're allowed to. Exactly. And in our society as humans, we've pretty much decided. They don't have a place in society for 'em because we haven't figured [00:25:00] out the place. Right. That's mine. That's where I'm coming from. I'm putting the onus on us in that sense. Yeah. Like we have not found a place for dogs in our society and that's why we euthanize them.

Like you said before, space is literally, literally one of the reasons these poor dogs get killed. Not because of health problems. Right. Not because. They're problem dogs, right. Because of space.

And I feel like that's a human problem. That isn't a dog problem. Absolutely. They've become very disposable because they're easy to dispose of.

When I was on contract at the SPCA, I had a guy come in, he had a Australian Shepherd. He said, I'm gonna turn it back in. And I said, well, why are you gonna turn it back in? He, well, he gets in the trash. I said, could you move the trash? He goes, yeah, I could, but I'm not gonna. And I thought, wow, gimme that dog.

You don't deserve a dog. No. You know? But that unfortunately is some of the mindset and it's a tragedy because they have so much more potential and so much more to offer.

I am curious from your perspective, what kind of barriers do you think we might come across from trainers? For example, I've [00:26:00] reached out to trainers in the area such as you, and one response I got was they were absolutely not interested in the human canine alliance and what we were offering because there was AI involved and they felt like AI should not be introduced into training at all, and I was very surprised.

By that reaction when I told you that you weren't so surprised. AI's not my friend, but, 

Barb: but I also know you have to grow and you know, that's part of the growth process and sometimes you have to adapt. And so if it means we look at it and go, yeah, that works for me, or That doesn't work for me, that's your option.

As a trainer, you get to do whatever works best for you. I think that the unfortunate thing is quite often when you get that type of response. You get the one trick pony. I read this and this is how it's supposed to go. And if that dog doesn't fit into that mold, I will. Shove it in there one way or the other.

And that's again, that shortcoming for the dog as well as the people that own it. [00:27:00] I mean, I have to adapt. A lot of it is adapting ai. It's here. Sorry guys, get with it. 

Stacie: What I like to just insert there is, I am a very big believer in ai, but I'm a bigger believer in the human brain. Right, right, right. So.

Part of what I felt like maybe I didn't get across to this trainer, and I'm hoping I have sense, and this is one of the barriers I wasn't anticipating having. Right. So, so that's why when I met you I was like, oh my gosh, explain this to me. Mm-hmm. Like this wasn't even something I was expecting to be a problem.

Was the AI factor. Right. And I think what the problem this trainer had was they were anticipating that the AI was basically going to spit out a report of what kind of training sessions should go and human trainer was gonna follow it. But really what we want Human Canine Alliance to do is the AI to strategically match the human and the dog.

Absolutely. And to say, Hey, you know what, the compatibilities here Yep. Are at a 85, 90 percentile. And if you were to train this dog to X, Y, Z because it [00:28:00] already knows how to do this and this, or it likes to do this, this, and this. Yep. Then this person would have a better lifestyle because of this dog being able to do. 

And a good example is an older woman who has lost her husband recently, and she is a gardener, but she doesn't have a lot of friends right now because all of her friends still are couples. And she doesn't wanna be the third wheel, and her kids don't live nearby, so she doesn't have a big social circle right now.

So she's gardening. That's what she does as her thing. And there's this dog. On The Human Canine Alliance app, who, um, the only reason he's still hanging out in the rescue center is because he digs holes when he's bored and it drives the owner's nuts. The AI could match those two. Yep. And say, Hey, this dog could be trained to dig holes for this gardener.

Absolutely. And if all the demeanors match, blah, blah, blah, that's a fantastic match. Absolutely. 

Barb: And it prevents me from going through hundreds of applications going, God, there's gotta be a digger in here somewhere. This AI is like, Hey. Right here. Here it is. And why not utilize what the dog's [00:29:00] talent is to make it compatible with what the human needs?

It saves going through stacks, reams of paper, trying to find the right one. Time, 

Stacie: paper, resources we don't have, because that's another huge thing in the rest of the industry. Absolutely. But they don't have the resources. Exactly. I mean, the money's not there. The people aren't there most, most. Of rescue centers are volunteer based.

I mean it's, it's basically from the heart. 

Barb: I look at 

AI and I'm like, you wanna help me? Go for it. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. It's a tool. It's not gonna take the dog and teach the dog to do what this person needs. And maybe that's where that trainer thought that was what you kind of meant. Yeah. 

Stacie: Maybe my messaging wasn't as on point as I thought it might have been.

Well, I'm, I'm glad to hear your response on that. But I also was glad to get that kind of response from that trainer because that's, I hadn't thought of that. I hadn't considered that. Exactly. And that was a training item for you. Absolutely. You know, you absolutely got that one. Mm-hmm. Now I know. Make sure they know the human brain is part of it.

There you go.

I feel like you might [00:30:00] have some sort of idea of what kind of timeframes might we be looking at.

Say we match that woman with a rescue dog who could dig for her and AI spit out and said, these are a perfect match. We're gonna send them to the Human Canine Alliance trainer, and the trainer's gonna teach 'em three to five skills.

What kind of timeframe are we looking at? 

Barb: A lot of it depends on what skills you're looking at, but if you have a digger and you've got a gardener, I would say probably within a week you could teach that dog to dig a hole. Wow. On cue. Wow. And that might even be extending the time. So, you know, it just kind of depends on what it is that you want.

If you are matching a dog with a mechanic and trying to get 'em to figure the difference between a wrench and a pair of pliers, it may take a little longer. So I think that's what you have to look at is what is the task or the behavior we wanna match up. That is super helpful. Yeah. That is super helpful.

Mm-hmm. You so much for, I'm gonna tell my little tail at the end.

At one [00:31:00] point the tale was that man and all the animals were walking on the planes. The earth started to shake and crack open. All the animals were on one side, man was on the other, and dog looked across and said He'll never survive without us. And jumped across and has been by our side ever since. So that's something that has always been kind of in my heart.

And now I see it in lots of different cultures, very similar fables. And so I think that our elders are talking to us and we need to listen sometimes. 

Stacie: Thank you. That was beautiful. Thank you so much for doing this. All right. I am honored. Thank you!

Thank you for listening to our podcast at the Human Canine Alliance, where we are actively developing the first ever social prescription for dogs. I am Stacie, your host. Please be sure to follow the podcast from wherever you are listening or watching so you don't miss the next one. Also, you can follow us on Instagram, Facebook.

YouTube or LinkedIn to keep in [00:32:00] the loop on our business progress, which by the way, we are getting ready to open a crowdfunding campaign so we can build the prototype of the app and we're gonna need your help more to come on that. But planting the seed right now, right here. Hopefully it'll grow. I hope you continue to listen.